Ep. 54: Photographing Danvers State Hospital (Interview with Christie Seyglinski)

In this week's episode, I interview photographer Christie Seyglinski. Listen to find out how she got started photographing abandoned Kirkbride hospitals and why she spent a night in an old asylum in 8th grade!

Add Abandoned: Echoes of the Past by Christie Seyglinski to your wishlist now! Available soon. Follow her work on Instagram @christieseyglinski or on Facebook at Abandoned: Echoes of the Past by Christie Seyglinski.

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Transcript

[00:29] Sarah: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to a very special episode of behind the walls of the world's psychiatric hospitals. I'm your host, Doctor Sarah Gallup. And today we have a guest with us on the show. This is only the second time we've had someone besides just me, so I'm really excited about that. So I've been. I don't know, we've been talking about this episode for a month or two months.

[00:53] Christie: A while. Yeah, it's been a minute.

[00:57] Sarah: So it's been a minute. So as we wrap up the story of Danvers State Hospital, I wanted to talk to somebody who's not only been there, but who's been to some of the other hospitals we've discussed and will discuss along the way. So without further ado, hello to our guest.

[01:14] Christie: Tell us who you are. So, my name is Christy Sieglinski. I'm a historian slash photographer slash a few things. But the biggest reason why I'm involved with this is because I do. I photograph a lot of abandoned psychiatric facilities. And I actually have a book coming out, which I have right here called abandoned echoes of the passed. And this is my book right here. It's the first. The first one. So the hardcover is still printing, but that's the. The paperback. And once I kind of give the okay for the hardcover, then it's off to the races. But, um. But, yeah, I'm an urban explorer, historian, photographer. So I just. I'm very intrigued by these hospitals. So thank you so much for having me on today.

[01:55] Sarah: Yeah, thanks for being with us. I've noticed, you know, as we are growing our little community, there are a lot of people who are very fascinated by the. The architecture of the old hospitals. And I even had had somebody on the Facebook group page say, hey, I thought I was really weird because I liked these hospitals. I'm like, right, right.

[02:14] Christie: Few of us. Yeah, there are some. I mean, normally, like, the average person, I'll be like, I have to, like, preface it and be like, this is like a coffee table photography book. Cause I don't want people to be like, oh, my gosh, that's scary. You know, but for me, it's not. It's just so interesting, these hospitals. I mean, if you have an interest in history and in these facilities, and then you combine that with, you know, a love for photography and just kind of capturing these buildings, there's really no words to describe what it's like going inside and actually seeing these facilities either left as they are or like, I've also been able to go inside Buffalo, which they're currently renovating. And so that was pretty cool because I got, I got to kind of see a Kirkbride, from how Doctor Kirkbride would have wanted to see it and how it would have been functioning with all the sunlight and the fresh air, and it was just, it was beautiful. But yes, I've been to many, many hospitals, so I'm excited to dive into that. Yay.

[03:12] Sarah: Well, I'm glad to have you here. I'm excited for everybody to learn about what you're doing and where you've been. So just to connect it back to Danvers, how many times have you been there? Like what? Oh, what have you?

[03:26] Christie: That's a good question.

[03:27] Sarah: Probably.

[03:28] Christie: I'd probably say I've been to Danvers five or six times. I wasn't able to visit Danvers when she was functioning, nor when she was actually sitting, abandoned as she was. Like if you've seen the movie session nine, I haven't been able to photograph her in that light. However, I have gone to the hospital several times since they've kind of renovated it into apartments. The biggest thing I like to do is to visit the cemetery because I like to, for Danvers and for really any psychiatric hospital that I've been to. I like to visit the cemetery for the simple fact that I like to make sure the patients are remembered. And I like to just kind of let them know they're not forgotten and kind of be that voice for, for them in terms of someone visiting, because I know that those, for one, a lot of people don't even know the cemeteries are there. And then I know they don't get all that many visitors. So I just kind of like to bring a little, you know, a little, little love and care to these, to these sites that honestly, I feel like have been largely forgotten, especially as they, it's great that they are being renovated or reused, I guess you could say. But, but it is, it is upsetting that, you know, a lot of the history does seem to be lost in some of the hospitals, so I'm just trying to make sure they're not forgotten.

[04:47] Sarah: So that, and that's, that's part of, you know, what drew me to this podcast and, and telling these stories for the same reason, because, you know, a lot of these people live their lives as if they didn't really exist, and then they're buried in unmarked graves and largely forgotten. And like you said, it's nice to bring back their stories and just let them know that, you know, they were real people. With real. I mean, their lives had meaning, and a lot of that was stripped from them. And it's nice to be able to try and speak for them as much as possible, but where I can, I like them to speak for themselves.

[05:24] Christie: Right. Absolutely. And I'm on the same page with that. It's. It's. It's pretty upsetting. I mean, a lot of the cemeteries that you go to, especially with these hospitals, like I'm sure you've seen, they're all pretty much numbered graves or don't necessarily have a name. One of my close friends, actually, there's a local hospital that I used. It was actually the first hospital I ever went to to photograph. And she was largely responsible for actually putting a monument on the grounds that identifies the number to the patient's name. Oh, wow. Wow.

[05:57] Sarah: That's cool.

[05:57] Christie: So that's pretty special, because if you go there now, I mean, you just see a field of, like, 900 plus just markers with numbers on it. And it is pretty upsetting. But then you walk a little bit further, and you do see a monument there that literally identifies 900 plus patients to their name. And I thought that was really nice. I wish that all of the cemeteries were, you know, able to do that. I understand. Just with patient files and things, it might be difficult, but, you know, ideally, that would be the world that we lived in, where each of these patients would at least get the recognition of their name. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. But that's why I do. I like to try to just visit, even if it's just for a couple minutes. If I'm in, like, anytime I go to Massachusetts, I'm like, I'm stopping at Danvers because I just. I just. I want to visit one because it's a kirkbride, and I love the building. But at the same time, I'm like, I want to visit the cemetery because I'm here, and someone should, you know, so.

[06:50] Sarah: Absolutely. I remember in my series on Willard State Hospital in New York, there was a story of Lawrence Marek, who was the ground keeper. He was the caretaker for the cemetery for many years, and I think he worked there for over 50 years. And then he was buried in an unmarked grave there. And I'm thinking somebody who spent so much time in the cemetery, he didn't even get recognized for. And I thought that was tragic.

[07:24] Christie: It's sad. It is. It's very sad. So that's why it's like, it's kind of a dark history, obviously, with these places, and a lot of people don't like to dive into them for this fact that they are pretty, in most cases, morbid histories or upsetting histories. And that's true. But at the same time, I think it's also important to remember that, especially with Doctor Kirkbride's vision, that wasn't the intention, that wasn't the plan, you know, and it honestly came with overcrowding and just with so many factors. But I think it's so important to remember that the vision for these hospitals was not to be such a dark sort of, quote, scary place, you know?

[08:03] Sarah: Right.

[08:03] Christie: And that's actually what I try to touch upon in my book, because I do, I, you know, I obviously do talk about their histories because they did come with some pretty dark histories. But I made it a point to, in an effort to kind of make it clear that this was obviously not Doctor Kirkbride's vision. And he was actually such an advocate for such healthy, amazing facilities for these patients. And just over time, and because of a variety of factors, they kind of went another path. But at the end of the day, that was not their vision type of thing. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

[08:35] Sarah: The early, the early pioneers, Doctor Kirkbride, Dorothea Dix, all of those, they had a really wonderful. Philippe Pinel is the french physician who came up with the idea of moral therapy. And it was such a lovely idea. And then just the underfunding and overcrowding seems to be the theme at every single asylum where they had started with such good intentions and such. And in a lot of ways, I wish we could use some of those ideas today.

[09:06] Christie: Oh, I agree. Yeah.

[09:07] Sarah: But there are a lot of reasons why we can't.

[09:10] Christie: Right, right. Times have changed, but. Yeah, but I think. I think that the sort of vision, like you said, I think that there was just, because initially there was so much care into how these even just down to how they were structured with the curved walls or, you know, the, the tall ceilings. Like, there was just so much detail put into making sure that these buildings were built and designed, even the grounds, to be such a healthy healing place for the patients. And so even if addressing that today, you know, things might change. But I think that vision still be, like, fundamental to psychiatric institutions today. Still, you know?

[09:49] Sarah: Absolutely. You know, one thing that, you know, as somebody who still works at a state hospital that strikes me about the kirkbride style is the twelve foot hallways, wide hallways, and now ours are so narrow. And if I had to guess, it's maybe 6ft, maybe 6ft across. And when you've got folks pacing up and down the hallways. It's really easy to bump somebody, to bump into someone, and then maybe a fight breaks out or, you know, just having that extra space, which was very intentional, so that people had their own bubble around them to be able to move safely through the hallways. Yeah, that would just. It was brilliant, and I wish that we had more of that still now. So when going back to Danvers a little bit.

[10:43] Christie: Yeah.

[10:43] Sarah: You know what? When you think about it now, I mean, obviously, it's an apartment complex now, and some of the pictures, it looks beautiful. What's been your experience of it?

[10:54] Christie: It's honestly, it's still really, really cool, because you. You drive up to the hospital, you drive up to the property, and I'm sure, you know, just driving up to any state hospital, but especially at Kirkbride, it's like you're driving up to this facility that, you know, is just gonna be struck.

[11:13] Sarah: You have a problem.

[11:15] Christie: Yes, exactly. And so you. As you get closer, you literally, like, pull onto Kirkbride drive, and I'm like, no one else probably gets that connection, but I'm like, kirkbride. You know, to me, it's so cool. I get excited. But then you pull up kind of, like, the winding pathways, and you just see the administration portion. Well, going by the former terms, the former administration portion of Danvers, and it's just striking. It's breathtaking. And they've completely kind of done it up to really look like it, I'm assuming did in its heyday. And it's really just breathtaking. And what they've actually done, they've unfortunately demolished a lot of it, so. But there are still kind of a few buildings where you can tell, hey, this was part of the original structure, which for me, I think is so cool. And then, you know, you go up there and you park, and they have put a memorial down, which is nice, like a little plaque with the history of Danvers and the hospital. And then as you walk along that path a little further, it's kind of tricky to find. I wasn't able to find it, I don't think, the first time I went there. But then I did a little more research, and I was able to find it. And you kind of go down this, like, hill and almost into, like, the woods, almost. But then you see this pave, like, this marker for the cemetery, and you go in the cemetery, and then you see, you know, different things in there. But it's really just. It's. It's really cool for me because, like, I said the buildings themselves are pieces of art, in my opinion. And so. Absolutely, yeah. So just seeing the structure, I. It's so cool to me. And then to see it, like I said, in a different light. Cause most of the times when I go to these hospitals, they are sitting in abandoned and ruin and decay. And so to see Danvers sort of functioning again, a different function, but still looking like that, it's really cool. So it's different, you know, of course, than as if you were to have driven up and seen Danvers, the hospital as we know it, but it's still really cool. So.

[13:14] Sarah: And I'm glad you mentioned that there's a marker there, because I had mentioned in the last episode, one of the last episodes on Danvers, that I, as far as my reading, which only went up to 2018, there hadn't been a marker placed there, which I thought was odd. And so it's nice to know it's there now.

[13:31] Christie: It's tricky to find. That's the thing, because, you know, you get onto the property itself, and it's such a large property, obviously. And initially, like I said, the first time I went to Danvers, I don't think I was able to find the cemetery. But then we kind of. My mom was with me, and so my mom and I did a little more research and basically we were able to figure out where it was. And then. So as you. It is tricky to find, though. But if you park and then you kind of walk down a little steep, like, hill, and you go around a bend, and then it's not even much. It's literally a boulder, kind of, that just says Danvers state hospital Cemetery on it. It's even that much and it's not recognizable. So you do kind of have to know what you're looking for. But it is there. Um. I wish they would make it a little bit more visible, you know, but am I to say anything? I mean, it's there, they've marked it. I'm happy they've at least done that, because so many of these places, you don't even know the cemetery is there in the first place. So, yeah, we have our biases, of course.

[14:30] Sarah: We want it to be front and center, as it should be.

[14:32] Christie: Right, right.

[14:35] Sarah: I mean, when you're there, have you heard any of this, any stories from Danvers or anything? Do you know of that? Anybody who's like, had creepy paranormal experience? Have you had a creepy paranormal experiences there?

[14:47] Christie: So I haven't had anything happen in Danvers specifically, but I also haven't spent all that much time inside because like I said, I haven't been able to explore it how I've been able to explore other hospitals. Unfortunately, like, I kind of got involved with Danvers a little bit after it had already been sold to become apartments. And so at that point, it was a little too late for me to get inside. In the urban exploration floor regard, I have gone inside as it is now, you know, to see like the lobby and just kind of be a little curious about it. But I haven't spent all that much time inside. And honestly, there's not even really all that much of the original Kirkbride even remaining from what I understand. I mean, I know it's the lobby at this point, and I believe they do have apartments because what they've done is they have the administration portion and then they've saved, I think, a wing on either side. So really, really not all that much that the Kirk bride even still stands today, but I do believe they've even renovated those portions into apartments or maybe offices or something. So I've gone inside in the regard where I wanted to see the inside of Danvers, but I haven't spent all that much time inside to have had anything happen to me specifically. However, I do know, and even with the group that I'm a part that I made on Facebook, the Kirkbride hospital group, I have had some people just write when I post about Danvers and they've say, oh, I used to work there, or they'd call it the castle on the hill and everything like that. So people have commented and said little things. I haven't been able to talk to anyone too thoroughly about their time at Danvers specifically. But I've reached out to a couple people, actually, because I am so fascinated by these locations and, and to hear about someone who was there working at this facility. Yeah, I'd love to hear about it. You know, despite, maybe it's probably not the happiest or most, you know, nice story. But at the same time, the history is so, is so rich and so important to remember. And so I do, even with, with Danvers and just with any hospital that I'm really involved with, I love to talk to anyone who was there because it's so important to hear and learn about that history, you know?

[16:53] Sarah: Yeah, the nice thing is, you know, since we started this series on Danvers, we've had a few people from the area who've said on different Facebook pages, say, hey, I work there, or, hey, I had a family member who was there, and it's been fun to hear their stories and get that personal connection from the people who lived it and experienced it firsthand.

[17:14] Christie: Exactly.

[17:16] Sarah: It didn't close that long ago, 30 years ago, which, I mean, that's a long time now, but it's not so far that we don't have people who remember it well.

[17:28] Christie: Right, exactly. Exactly. And I think you hit the nail on the head by saying the personal connection, because that's truly what brings so many of these places sort of back to life, in a sense, is that personal connection, because obviously, you know, we don't. And as time progresses, those personal connections are going to be less and less and less. And so they're important for so many reasons. But truly, just in terms of even just documenting the hospitals and their history, talking to someone who was there is one of, if not the best ways to do it, because that's, you're literally getting their account. And it's just, it's very important to, to keep their memories alive. I mean, these places were such important structures and they did have such a pivotal role in, you know, how society was at that time and how people were cared for just across the board. But, yeah, you hit the nail on the head saying the personal connection, because I think that that is so fundamental in remembering these places specifically.

[18:25] Sarah: For sure.

[18:25] Christie: For sure.

[18:26] Sarah: So what other hospital? I mean, I know you've been to a lot of hospitals.

[18:31] Christie: Yes.

[18:32] Sarah: Where in all have you been? Do you know how many you've been to?

[18:35] Christie: I've probably been to, I lost count a long time ago, but I probably, I've probably been, because I saw, I start, we're going to rewind a little bit because I started to go to these hospitals in 2006. I was twelve years old, and the first one I ever went to was Marlboro psychiatric Hospital in Marlboro, New Jersey. And that was really, really cool. I was always interested in, like, the paranormal and ghost hunting and things like that and combining that with my love for history. And then the first time I ever went to one of these hospitals, I was like, I just didn't even know what to say, you know? So the first one I ever went to was Marlborough. From there, I started to research more, obviously found out about Kirk brides. And then I started going to the Kirk brides. And the first Kirk bride I believe I ever went to was Greystone, which has since been demolished. Greystone was demolished in 2015, but I believe I would say that was my favorite. It was pretty close to me. It was about maybe an hour or so. An hour drive. But just driving up to Greystone, driving up to any hospital, any facility, really, but specifically a kirkbride. I mean, like I said, you feel like almost like you're driving up to a castle. I mean, it's breathtaking. But honestly, I'd have to say I've been to probably at least, probably, like, 17 or 18 hospitals at this point. And then most of those hospitals I just visit several times because you never get sick of them. So I'd say that the one I visit the most at this point is probably out in Long island. It's called Kings park.

[20:12] Sarah: Oh, yes.

[20:13] Christie: But yes, Kings park is something special that's like a fortress in itself, too, because the building there is 13 stories tall. So it's massive. It is. And it blows your mind. I mean, you pull up to this building, and you look at it, and one, it's a beautiful structure, but then you go inside, and it hits you for a couple reasons. I mean, the one of the reasons that it always hits me is I like to go to Kings park for around, like, 05:00 a.m. When the sun's coming up. Because what I like to do is go up to the roof and take some pictures of the sunrise over the long island sound. And so that's pretty cool. But it's also a little crazy, because you go inside at, like, 04:30 a.m. It's still pitch black. You're the only one inside. And it. It's a little crazy for most people. They're probably like, no, never for me. I kind of get fuel. That's my fuel to kind of explore more. And it's just so fascinating to me because you go inside and everything is just left as it was. I mean, I've gone inside so many of these hospitals, and you find there's rooms still labeled for the patient that was in that room. Or, you know, you go to trans Allegheny in West Virginia, and everything is still labeled dorizine and syringes, and it really just takes you back, and it makes your mind wander as to what actually did happen here at one point in time where I'm standing right now. You know, travel. Yeah, it is. It is. That's the perfect way to put it, honestly, because. And it's. It's difficult to describe, too, because it's like these places. It is. It is, you know, spooky going inside, because everything is just kind of left at a standstill. For me, though, that doesn't spook me out. And I think that's why I'm gravitated toward these places rather than kind of being like, I'm not going in there, you know, because it is, it is really cool for me, like I said, to combine all the elements of things that I care so deeply for, of history, of photography, of these facilities, and it all comes together and it, there's really no way to put it, just, it's fascinating and it means so much to me, you know, so it's, it's.

[22:24] Sarah: So, it's so normalizing to hear that there are other people who actually.

[22:31] Christie: Used to just like, like expecting people to be like Chrissy, now you're like, what are you talking about? But it's, it's so nice to kind of be in like familiar sort of territory.

[22:40] Sarah: Right, right. Usually, um, somehow when I end up bringing it up, and that's, again, another wonderful thing about the podcast is, you know, people find it and they, if they're interested, they'll listen, right. Usually when I bring up the old asylums and the history or the treatment, it's like honor in the conversation.

[22:59] Christie: Exactly, exactly. It's like, well, yeah, I gotcha. This is something that's so true too, because most people, you know, they, again, they just have this such negative image of these places, which again, I understand, but then a little bit deeper. Yeah, if you dive a little bit deeper into it, there's so much more to these buildings and to these structures, and with history in general, but particularly with places like this, it is so important to preserve what we can, how we can, and through that, whether it be through the personal testimony, like you were saying, or through how I know how to do it, which is through my camera, you know, to preserve, to take pictures of anything that I can. But it's so fascinating too, because like you go inside and I've seen old painting kits and it just really, like I said, it makes your mind wander as to someone actually used this kit and someone actually was, you know, here standing where I am. And you can't help but feel bad, of course. But for me, like I said, that's sort of my fuel, because I know that through my photography and through my research and my trips to these hospitals, all my efforts are to make sure that these places are preserved and just remembered and the patients are remembered. And so even if I do get a little spooked out or if I hear something in a hospital, I'm like, at the end of the day, like I'm doing this for a reason, and that's to make sure that these places are preserved. And in whatever way I can sort of shift all the negative light that I feel these places tend to get. And maybe even if it's just a little positive glimmer, like, hey, they were built to be these really spectacular structures that did nothing but help these patients, you know? So even if I can just kind of backtrack and get rid of a little bit of the negative connotation about these locations, that's enough for me, because going back to, like I said, doctor Kirkbride's vision and Dorothea Dix and everything, you know, these structures were built with good intentions.

[24:59] Sarah: They were, yes. I appreciate that part about the history, for sure.

[25:04] Christie: Yeah, yeah.

[25:05] Sarah: So you mentioned that you first went to, you visited your first asylum when you were twelve. How did you get started with the photography and shooting these places?

[25:14] Christie: Yeah, so I've always kind of loved art in general. I used to always draw and so I always kind of had like, I guess an artistic bone in my body. And then when I was younger, I would always just kind of take pictures of the hospitals just on my phone or whatever I had at the time. I actually didn't start seriously like photographing the hospitals until probably I was in probably I'd say like middle school to high school. So that took like a minute to actually get it, to do it at that level. And then, but honestly, for me, like, once I started going in there with my camera and just for lack of a better word, looking at it through that lens, it kind of changed. So everything in that you just, I almost feel like you notice little details a little bit more and you notice just everything that you're looking at in a different way. And for me, so once I started going inside with my, with my camera, I just, I got so much out of it. It was just so interesting. But like I said, you really do look at everything a little bit differently when you have the camera because you're not just exploring, you're looking for, okay, like, what's going to make this a good picture? But at the same time, every little thing in there could be a good picture, you know, because you look down a hallway, you see like a single wheelchair, but at the same time, that makes for a great photo. But then again, it makes your mind sort of wander as to, and think back as to what this location actually was and, but honestly, I just think that once I started actually seriously photograph, photographing these locations, it's just, it's really kind of paved the way for me to just almost explore even further and even additional locations because now I just feel like, I have a new light in my mind, like a new way of viewing these hospitals. And so I want to go back to all the old ones I've been to and new ones and just really photograph it through my camera because I just feel like you, you get such a thorough look into, into these hospitals, both how they are now, but again, also tracing back to how they once were based off of what you're visually seeing in the picture, you know?

[27:24] Sarah: So it gives you a good excuse to go back.

[27:27] Christie: Yes, exactly. So you get it.

[27:30] Sarah: I get it. I'm not a very creative person.

[27:35] Christie: Okay.

[27:37] Sarah: I wish, I mean, photography is something I wish I could do better. But do you have, like, a process that you go through when you get.

[27:42] Christie: How do you.

[27:42] Sarah: I mean, they're massive buildings, like you said. Where do you even know where to begin?

[27:46] Christie: Right? So it's tricky. It's tricky. And it's both kind of just calming to me in a sense, in a weird way, because, like, for example, Kings park I'm very familiar with because I've been there so many times. So I know at that point, kind of like the drill. It's tricky though, because with Kings park in particular, you know, you always have, you don't, you don't really know. I mean, every time you go there, like, the entrance that you used last time is boarded up. And so you do have to be creative sometimes and different things like that. But it's just really, sometimes you don't know where to start. You just kind of, the first thing on my mind sometimes is just how am I going to get inside? And then once I'm inside, I kind of figure it out from there. Usually with King Park, Kings Park, I have a routine down where I know I'm going to the rooftop first, and then I work my way down. But with every other hospital, especially if it's a hospital that I haven't visited before, I really, initially, I just, I want to get inside. I want to kind of take it all in for a second because it is such a structure and I do want to remember where I am and what happened here, you know? So I do take a second or two to kind of just take it in, and then I honestly just explore. I usually just have my flashlight with me and I just kind of look around. Usually I'm drawn to, like I said, the little sort of things, like the details or little things like that, but at the same time, you know, you're looking down a vast kirkbride hallway and that, and that's spectacular in its own, you know, you take pictures of that and then from there, the ball just kind of gets rolling and you just. You just. You just keep continuing to explore and anything that catches your eye, really. And then next thing I know, I have 500 new pictures to look through, you know, so. Yes, yes. But it's just, honestly, it's an adventure. But as someone who has so much respect for history and for these places and who was once inside, I think there does need to be that balance because, unfortunately, you do go inside many of these hospitals, there's graffiti, everything's destroyed, and you can tell there's been a fire set. And that breaks my heart. And so, you know, I definitely make sure to go inside with an air of caution, but with an air of, you know, making sure that I'm not going to obviously cause any damage. So just very cautious about it and respectful about it. That's so important, is to be respectful. Most of the people that go inside these places now, it's for fun or, you know, graffiti or different things like that, or to get kind of a little excitement, and I get that, but you should always be respectful. And so that's such a key part in my exploration, is to be respectful. So.

[30:31] Sarah: Absolutely. And I. You know, I'm. As you're talking about that, I'm thinking back about one of the pictures that I saw that you had taken that really, it stuck with me because it seems like there's a mix of different people who are going into these sites, and there was one somebody had tagged on the wall. Like, I wish I could have saved you.

[30:48] Christie: Yeah, yeah, sorry I couldn't save you.

[30:51] Sarah: Yeah, yeah, sorry I couldn't save you. It was so poignant, and I thought, what a beautiful, beautiful sentiment to write on the walls. And so even in the midst of, you know, it's graffiti, they're tagging this old building, and yet it was so powerful.

[31:07] Christie: Exactly. Like, I have chills even when you're talking about it, because I know exactly what you're saying. Like, I completely agree. So it's true, though. It's like, I'm not one for graffiti. I don't like it. However, I will say that some of the graffiti that I photograph has been kind of interesting to look at and to read just because, like you said, I mean, some of them say some really poignant things that are just. It does. It makes your mind stop for a second and be like, wait, you know, people did suffer here. And, you know, and it does make your mind think so. Not that I like graffiti in any sense of the word. But I do think some of the graffiti that I've seen has aided in my photographs, because it really just does flip a switch in your mind where you just think about something that you probably haven't thought about before, you know, so. Yeah, no, but that's. That's that picture that you talked about, the. Sorry I couldn't save you. That. That always strikes me as, well. So.

[32:01] Sarah: Horrible one. And it's almost like I may not have had that thought when I was there, but it is sort of an externalization of someone else's thought and their experience while they're there, which is in and of itself. It's someone. A documentation of someone else's experience, which is really interesting.

[32:17] Christie: Yeah, absolutely. That's true. Absolutely. That's a great way to look at it, too. It's someone else and sort of the emotions that they were that were brought out in them. And that's a great way to look at it. Yeah, absolutely.

[32:28] Sarah: I think your book will probably do the same thing. One question I do have lingering in the back of my mind, though, is, yeah, what about safety concerns? I'm such a cautious person.

[32:40] Christie: Yes.

[32:40] Sarah: With these abandoned buildings where the floors are soft and, yes, missing entirely. I mean, how do you. Sometimes you may not know what you're getting yourself into.

[32:49] Christie: Yeah, no, you're 100% right with that. That's why I usually. I either usually go with a friend. I've made some friends through exploring Kings park. And so a lot of times I'll meet up with one or two of them and we'll explore together. If not, at the very least, I'm like, okay. I tell a few people, hey, this is where I am. This is what I'm doing. But as for going inside the buildings themselves, I always obviously try to be careful. Try to be cautious. The certain buildings, like Hudson Valley, for example, Hudson River State Hospital, that one is. Well, now they're sort of demolishing parts of it, renovating parts of it. That one, while it was sitting abandoned, I knew was in very rough shape. And I never actually went inside that hospital for that specific reason of, I know these floors aren't sturdy. I just can't trust going inside. Maybe if I had someone with me, I would have tried to go inside and at least stayed on the first level or two to really be cautious about it. But at certain points, there have been times where I just said, it's not safe. I'm not going to go inside Kings park in particular. And I keep going back to Kings park just because it's the one I frequent the most. But really, any of these hospitals, especially if they have been sitting abandoned for so long, you do want to just have your wits about you. You want to be cautious and careful. The even every step you take, you want to just be careful and cautious that you're looking down and there's nothing there, that the floor is sturdy. I mean, I've gone inside some of these locations again. Kings park, building 93 at Kings park. It's actually pretty scary because you look at the elevator shaft and the doors are all, like, missing, and it's just straight down 13 floors. I'm not even getting close to that to take a picture, like, there's no way, you know, so. But a lot of the places that I go to, I, especially if it's a new location, but I always do my research beforehand. I'll usually talk to people who I know who have been there, so that I know, like, hey, is it safe? Or x, Y and z? Is there any place I shouldn't travel to? So I definitely do everything I do with a lot of caution and preparation before hands. I don't just, like, go and just walk inside. I definitely make sure I know if the building, or at least what parts of it, are structurally sound. I usually follow the footsteps of other photographers and people that I know who have been there. This way I know I'm doing as much as I can to make sure I'm being safe about it.

[35:16] Sarah: Yeah. Minimizing your risk as much as is possible with these old buildings.

[35:20] Christie: Right.

[35:20] Sarah: I know I. I know just for myself that I would be staring up at the ceiling, looking at this, and then I completely fall into that 13 floor elevator shaft.

[35:32] Christie: Yeah. It's like there's so much to look at. So you really do have to even, like I said, down to every step you take, you really have to be careful and cautious about it, of course. You know, let your mind wander and look at everything. But you, like I said, you do kind of have to have your senses about you and that you. You want to be extra careful and extra cautious with every step you take because you don't know what can happen. That's the fact of the matter is you don't know what can happen. And even with as much preparation as I do, you know, things can still happen. The floor could give out or you don't know. You could, you know, so you do. You always have to be very cautious. I wouldn't advise, you know, everyone to just go into. Go and do this, you know, but if you do have the interest like I do, just, just make sure you have even extra caution than what you normally would have and think three steps ahead of you just to ensure you're being as safe as you can.

[36:23] Sarah: So that's, that's good thinking. Yeah. It sounds like Kings park is really your favorite place, your go to place. Do you have another place that you really enjoy going to or that you enjoy photographing?

[36:37] Christie: I do, I do. I would have to say trans Allegheny lunatic asylum.

[36:42] Sarah: I keep. Every time you even mention it, I just kind of.

[36:45] Christie: Yes, trans Allegheny actually goes back pretty, pretty far for me. So the first time I ever went to trans Allegheny was back in 2008, and I was actually with the cast of the tv show Ghost Hunters, and I was doing an investigation with them, so I got, I was in 8th grade, I got to spend the night in the, in the hospital. Not many other 8th graders I know do that, but I was so excited, and, um, so that was, that was really cool for me. I had, you know, some spooky paranormal things happen, which I can, you know, dive into if you want me to. Um, but I just. That was, that was the first, that was the first kirkbride I ever went inside. And Trans Allegheny is great in that it's now a museum, so you can go inside legally, you can get tickets, you can do a variety of tours. They have so many tour options. I would suggest doing the photography tour because you get basically 4 hours of just access to so many buildings and grounds, and you can just wander where you want to wander and really just let your mind take the reins, you know. But then, of course, they do offer the guided tours and everything like that if you want more of the history. So there's so many things to see at Trans Allegheny, but for me, I'd say that's definitely one of my favorites as well, because I've been going there for so long, so it just means so much to me. But at the same time, they've done such a wonderful job of really taking care of the Kirk bride and the grounds themselves, and it's just, it's so fascinating to walk through there. What they've done is so the first floor, they've kind of renovated to look like how the Kirkbride hospital looked like in its heyday. And then the floors, the three floors above you are also left sort of abandoned, and so you really get kind of like a taste of both. So you can see, like the hospital, what it looked like with the functioning wards, and then you can go up and just see the wheelchairs and everything is just labeled and falling apart. And it, it takes your mind on a journey. It really does, because it's, there's so much to see and to take in. Like, I sometimes I don't even know what to say.

[38:48] Sarah: That's, and I can't remember if I've told you this, that that's sort of my holy grail of all the hospitals that I want to cover, and I'm purposefully and intentionally stalling on covering it because I want to be able to go, oh, okay. That might.

[39:05] Christie: No, that's good, though. Yeah, I want to go and see.

[39:08] Sarah: It and have that.

[39:09] Christie: Yes. I think they're actually having their opening weekend this weekend, so you can get up there, but it's well worth it. And it's actually cool because one of my photographs that's in my book, actually, let me pull up the photograph, because trans Allegheny actually has this photograph on postcards, and they sell it in their gift shop.

[39:31] Sarah: Oh, wow.

[39:32] Christie: So it's this photograph that I took of trans Allegheny, and they have this in postcards in their gift shop now, too. So I'm like, oh, my gosh. I'm like, you just rewind. And I'm like, I first came here when I was 14 years old, and now my photo is in a gift shop, and now I publishing a book about this hospital, you know? So it really just, it means so much to me. It really does. It's just so cool. But trans Allegheny is worth the visit. Yeah.

[39:57] Sarah: Oh, my gosh, I cannot wait to go.

[40:00] Christie: Yes, you would love it.

[40:02] Sarah: But, yeah, it's on the list. It's high.

[40:06] Christie: If you get out there, let me know, because it's, honestly, it's only about like a five, five and a half hour drive for me. And it's, I love getting out there. Any chance I can. So if you want company, let me know. I'll be there.

[40:18] Sarah: We'll make a patreon experience of it.

[40:21] Christie: Yes. Yes. Right? No, that would be awesome, though. But it's, it's well worth it. Visit for sure. And then honestly, just really, any kirkbride that I get to visit or explore is, is a good day.

[40:31] Sarah: So we have so very few of them out west.

[40:36] Christie: Right.

[40:36] Sarah: The, I mean, Oregon State Hospital is the only one that I could, that I can think of that still stands, and maybe somebody can correct me on that. But what's really neat is, I mean, I was, my claim to fame is that I was born across the street from Oregon State Hospital.

[40:54] Christie: Oh, really?

[40:55] Sarah: That's my connection. I mean, it was one of the main thoroughfares through Salem, Oregon. And so I grew up just driving by it. I mean, to get to the mall or to the red robin or wherever. You know, we drove past the hospital, and I always thought it was such a beautiful building and was really curious about what was going on. And back then, it was the original, original Kirkbride building from the late 18 hundreds. And over the years, it just. It really started to look in rough shape. So most of the building, like the patient wings, were demolished between 2009 and 2012. And then they kept the original Kirkbride administrative area.

[41:40] Christie: Yeah.

[41:41] Sarah: And reconstructed it from the inside, remodeled it, and that's still the administrative area of the hospital. And there's a little section within that that's saved for the Oregon State Hospital Museum. And so they have that set up like a. There's an example of a patient room. A lot of it is in homage to one flew over the cuckoo's nest, which was filmed there.

[42:04] Christie: Yeah.

[42:05] Sarah: But then the rest of it was completely rebuilt in a modern structure. But it's beautiful to be able to see the old, original building.

[42:13] Christie: Exactly.

[42:14] Sarah: The modern with the same.

[42:17] Christie: Right, right. And it does it really, like, it really makes your mind think for a second, because you're looking at, you know, then and now sort of type of thing, you know, and it's really. It's just. It is. It's so fascinating. And that's even, like, when I was inside, in September, I went up to Buffalo, the kirkbride up in Buffalo, to photograph that one. And like I mentioned, they're renovating that into a hotel. But it was just so cool, because as I was there in my. In my room inside the kirkbride, I'm sitting there and I'm thinking. I'm looking at, you know, photos of the hospital from the past, and then I'm going out in the hallway, and I'm taking those same shots, but. Of how it looks now as, like, a renovated facility. And it's just so fascinating because you're sitting there, like patients used to sit here and play, you know, this game or sit by this fireplace, and they took this picture, and now I'm here, and it really just take you on a journey. And especially for someone who loves history so much, I mean, there's nothing else like it. It's. It's just. It's fascinating.

[43:16] Sarah: So I can appreciate that. For sure.

[43:20] Christie: Yeah.

[43:21] Sarah: So I. Is there. What do you. I'm already thinking about, like, I feel like we could talk about this for hours.

[43:28] Christie: I know, I completely agree.

[43:32] Sarah: What do you get personally from your work?

[43:36] Christie: I think for me, what I get the most out of it is just kind of like what I touched upon earlier is just that these structures have been so important to me for so much of my life. And I know that today a lot of these structures are, you know, people go inside with, you know, to do graffiti or to get sort of a scare or, you know, but most people don't go inside with a respectful sort of nature about them. And for me that's, I think what I do get out of it is knowing that I am going into these buildings and I'm doing it with the purpose of remembering what they were intended for and remembering who was inside and also remembering the pain and the suffering that did happen there because it did, you know, and you have to. I just, I don't think that these places really get thought about all that often, especially today or there are misconceptions too. Yeah. And I also think that, you know, these places were, you know, had such a negative light about them. And today, even when you drive past these places and they're just sitting there abandoned now, people are like, oh, that should get torn down, you know, or, you know, X, Y and Z or, oh, that doesn't look nice. Why is it still standing? But I view it so differently. And I view it as this once was such an imposing, impressive structure and this once did house 3000 patients. And there is so much more than what you're actually seeing when you stand there today. And so for me, I think that's just what I do get out of it the most, is just knowing that I'm doing all I can in the only way I know how to preserve the history of these places, the patients that were inside and just making sure genuinely that history is not forgotten. And I think that's what I just get the most out of it is knowing that I'm doing what I can to preserve these places that I care so deeply for.

[45:38] Sarah: I love that and I can resonate with that because I'm doing what I do.

[45:43] Christie: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I'm just have our artistic sort of outlets for it. I have my camera and you have this. Yes, right, right.

[45:52] Sarah: And so that's what's so wonderful about everybody having their own skills and their own abilities. So I guess as we think about wrapping up, I don't want to think.

[46:02] Christie: Of, I know you have a book.

[46:05] Sarah: I feel, where can folks get your book? Where can people find you on social media?

[46:11] Christie: Yes. So my book. So I have my book's going to be published through Ingram publisher. So it's going to be in basically every major book retailer that out there, Barnes and noble Amazon ebook. So it'll be basically any outlet that you can think of, so long as there's a demand for it, they'll have it in stock, but you can always order it through all these outlets as well. And then I also have a Facebook page for my book. So the book is entitled Abandoned echoes of the past by Christy Sieglinski. So the Facebook page is titled just that, abandoned echoes of the past by Christy Sieglinski. So you can find me there, or my personal accounts as well, just by my name, Christy Sieglinski. But I post a lot of my photography of all these different facilities that I do visit. But I'm very excited about this book. It's my first one, and I've been working on it since last summer. And like I said, just to really put my vision of combining history with my photographs with these places that mean so much to me, I'm like, it just, it means the world to me that I'm going to forever be sort of tied to these places that I've done so much work to make sure that they're remembered and they're not forgotten. And if anything, I'm just honored to kind of have this platform, you know? So, yeah, but I'm very excited. And actually, Buffalo in particular, I might be able to do a book signing at Buffalo. And I've talked to, I'm like, how, how, like, full circle would it be if, like, now I'm doing book signings at these places? You know, I don't know what the future holds. I don't know what the future holds. But it's, I'm just, I'm honored. And I just, I hope that through my book and through my images, people just really take away how much I care for these places and how important it is to remember them, remember the people that were inside, remember their histories. And really just to kind of let your mind take you on the journey of what I see when I go inside, down to all the little details, down to these vast hallways that you see. I mean, there's so much to take in and absorb. And I just hope my book even gives a glimpse of what it's actually like inside to sort of see what I see, but also to let your mind take that journey of where am I actually standing right now? What am I looking at? And I just am very excited. So clearly very excited.

[48:30] Sarah: And just for everybody who's not watching and who's just listening. Chrissy's been holding up her book to the screen, kind of dancing it around a little bit.

[48:38] Christie: It's very cute.

[48:40] Sarah: Um, so is there any, maybe one last question. Is there anything else that you think is important for us to know about what you've done or your visits to the hospitals?

[48:50] Christie: I just think, you know, it's just so important. Like I said, if people are sort of, especially if my book intrigues anyone to sort of take a look themselves or to explore themselves. Like I said, just be respectful, be cautious. But really, I, it would mean so much to me if my book sort of inspired other people to, even if just read about the history of these hospitals or to research them, because that's just more sort of fuel to making sure that these places and everything that happens, it's not forgotten and it's preserved. And then hopefully that could shed light where you do get more personal connections of, hey, I work there, or, you know, you never know what's going to come out of anything, really. So I'm, I'm very excited to see where this journey sort of takes me. But like I said, if my book even inspires one person to just research a little bit more about the hospitals or just to read about them or even take a drive to the local hospital that they have, you know, because that's how I got started and you never know what could come of it, clearly, so.

[49:52] Sarah: Exactly. You might completely spiral and end up a psychologist working at a state hospital.

[49:58] Christie: Oh, yeah, no, I would love to talk to you about that too, because I feel like that must be really interesting position that you hold, you know? Yeah, we'll talk. We'll save that for another time.

[50:13] Sarah: Well, thank you so much. I know I've ordered my copy of my book. I'm super excited to get it, but I think I have the hardcover, so.

[50:19] Christie: Yeah. So the hardcover, wild. Yeah, no, it's. It's printing. I should hopefully have that in my hand soon. And then once I kind of give the okay for that, then it's off to the races, so hooray.

[50:31] Sarah: Well, thank you again so much for joining us.

[50:33] Christie: I really appreciate it. Thank you.

[50:37] Sarah: So just a reminder that you can follow Christy on the Facebook. Her Facebook group page abandoned echoes of the past by Christy Sieglinski. And then do you have an Instagram page or anything like that?

[50:50] Christie: I do. Well, my instagram is just my personal account. Chrissy Sieglinski. But again, I do. I post all my pictures there as well. So if you want to see more of my sort of exploration and everything like that, feel free to give me a follow. And yeah, I'm just very excited to see what everyone thinks of my book. So thank you so much for having me. It means so much and I'm just so happy to have met you and I feel like we can talk all day.

[51:12] Sarah: Exactly. Also, reminder, if you haven't joined the Facebook grape group for this yet, it's behind the Walls podcast, or you can follow us on Instagram at behind the wallspod. Be sure to reveal, rate, review and subscribe wherever you are listening. But as I always say, super extra bonus points if that's on Apple Podcasts, be sure to check out beacons and Patreon I'm in the process of updating the Patreon page right now, having some technical difficulties, but most of all, remember the words of Maya Angelou, do the best you can until you know better. And then when you know better, do better. Until next time, thank you so much for listening to behind the walls of the world psychiatric hospitals. Once again, I'm your host, doctor Sarah Gallup. Cover image is by Christopher Payne. Check out my website at behindthewallspodcast dot buzzbrout.com. Follow the podcast and learn more on Facebook at behind the Wallspodcast and Instagram at behindthewallspod. For questions or recommendations, email me@behindthewallspodcastmail.com you can find new episodes every Monday on Amazon podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you're listening right now. If you like the show, please rate, review and subscribe on Apple Podcasts. It helps other people find and listen to the show and I would be so grateful. Please stay tuned for more episodes of behind the walls of the world's psychiatric hospitals. Until next time.